How are they ambiguous? Because some only remember the Good Rex games and bad Orton games...or only remember the Bad Rex games or Good Orton games. The #'s are fuigued out w/ simple math and yahoo stats...and as far as my opinion goes they are both pretty much the same as far as taking care of the ball....thats why I ask and present stats and facts............sure hearing a lot of crickets from the Rex and Orton "homers" though..............................................I am just tired of hearing the same game manager QB debate over and over yet nobody puts up stats so I decided to look for myself and found a whole lot of nothing that convinces me who is the better game manager
staleyrulz: How are they ambiguous? Because some only remember the Good Rex games and bad Orton games...or only remember the Bad Rex games or Good Orton games. The #'s are fuigued out w/ simple math and yahoo stats...and as far as my opinion goes they are both pretty much the same as far as taking care of the ball....thats why I ask and present stats and facts............sure hearing a lot of crickets from the Rex and Orton "homers" though..............................................I am just tired of hearing the same game manager QB debate over and over yet nobody puts up stats so I decided to look for myself and found a whole lot of nothing that convinces me who is the better game manager
I really just don't see the point in converting hard #'s into percentages when they show the same thing! As far as the "game manager" label, I don't like it either! When it's applied to Kyle it's a weak argument. The guy was a rookie, that's how rrokies are expected to play by coaching staffs. Let him play now with some experience, a full playbook, and see if he is still a game manager. Going in to the season it comes down to who you trust to not make a bad desicion in a critical time of the game bacause this O will be good enough. For me it's Kyle!
calabis:Yeah, when Orton makes a mistake it usually is not critical, as Rex seems to screw up at every critical moment
With the game on the line and Rex being pressured, tell me this doesnt apply to Rexbots and Neckbeard Army members alike. NOTE: This behavior amplifies if hes already been sacked or thrown an interception.
When Rex drops back and winds up his he-man arm, and makes that last step backward (off his back foot)......he "Lets her fly". EVERY Bears fan in the stadium, gasps, clench's their teeth and silently says a short prayer for either a catch by ANYONE eligible wearing a Bears jersey or to completely miss the field.
What a pathetic way to watch a football game at the stadium or at home. Being on the verge of throwing a brick into a $3000 Plasma screen in pure frustration or wiping the sweat from your forehead while 'Thanking the football Gods for a completion".
Thats what its like watching Grossman play the last two seasons for me.
Hampton_Fan: calabis:Yeah, when Orton makes a mistake it usually is not critical, as Rex seems to screw up at every critical moment With the game on the line and Rex being pressured, tell me this doesnt apply to Rexbots and Neckbeard Army members alike. NOTE: This behavior amplifies if hes already been sacked or thrown an interception. When Rex drops back and winds up his he-man arm, and makes that last step backward (off his back foot)......he "Lets her fly". EVERY Bears fan in the stadium, gasps, clench's their teeth and silently says a short prayer for either a catch by ANYONE eligible wearing a Bears jersey or to completely miss the field. What a pathetic way to watch a football game at the stadium or at home. Being on the verge of throwing a brick into a $3000 Plasma screen in pure frustration or wiping the sweat from your forehead while 'Thanking the football Gods for a completion". Thats what its like watching Grossman play the last two seasons for me.
Are you saying you have faith in Orton to perform better or give you a sense of ease, I have always got that nervous feeling when the score is close in the end, no matter who the QB, FG kicker, or defense is on the field.
I really don't get a comfortable feeling w/ Orton in unless the defense is getting takeaways and were just running the clock only worrying about the runningbacks fumbling.
I like the improvement I've seen from Orton, but I can't see a franchise QB in him. Rex has been inconsistent, a gambler, and frustrating at times, but other times he's been lights out sensational. My opinion about Grossman is that he has too much confidence in his arm and loses it all at the slightest hit on his ego. I can only he hope he gets his head into the games instead of party night. Orton hasn't shown the ability to make a game fun to watch yet, except against 3rd string players in preseason when Bradley was his go to guy. Maybe he can put it together, but I highly doubt any QB under Turner will have success desired as long as continues to run his 10 play game plan every game.
Grossman throws for over 250 yards in 21.9% of his games and over 200 yards in 43.8% of his games
Orton throws for over 250 yards in 0% of his games and over 200 yards in 11.1% of his games
Lets see.... I dont know if I am at pure ease watching Kyle either. I do trust him not to make stupid or foolish reads and glory tosses unless thats what he is told to do (versus the Vikings last year in the last moments of the game)
By the way......When did you actually see Orton play other than three games last season? Prior to that it had bee since December, 18th of 2005 versus Atlanta at Soldier Field.
Are you saying you can get a solid assesment of a QB when you hadnt seen him play in 2 years? Then you see him for 3 games at seasons end and you dont have the warm fuzzies with him. Is that what you are saying?
Personally............I am completely sick and tired of the same ole (CBMB Modbot edit) as far as Rex is concerned! When hes on hes on.......you are right, however thats not how you get to the SuperBowl. You cant say well we will take this and that teams best 8 games a year and throw the rest out like oh so many Grossman fans want to do with his games.
Look.... Orton became a starter out of necessity and QB'ed our team right into the playoffs in 2005' LIKE IT OR NOT! Then out of the blue (while we were winning vs Atlanta) Lovie yanked Orton for Rex during the game. He put in a player coming back from yet another injury who had an awesome second half against a weary (and cold) Atlanta defense and then went on to toss our playoff hopes out the window against the Panthers in January.
PLEASE dont think I am pinning any of that solely on Rex's shoulders as it may sound like I am but in fact I am not. I realize its a team sport and I BLAME the coaching staff whole heartedly for this WHOLE QB mess. They should have had this fixed long long long ago but they wanted to make sure about Grossman!!
The jury is still out or so they say but if Rex gets the starting position and he chokes again this season as he did last year.....you can look for him in Oakland or Tampa in 09'.
the offense under Orton averages 17.6 pts/game and defense allowing 13.2 pts/game w/ a +4.4 pt difference
the offense under Grossman averages 22.2 pts/game and defense allowing 17.8 pts/game w/ a +4.4 pt difference
Grossman wins 65.6% of his games
Orton wins 66.6% of his games
Are they really that different?
staleyrulz: Grossman throws for over 250 yards in 21.9% of his games and over 200 yards in 43.8% of his games Orton throws for over 250 yards in 0% of his games and over 200 yards in 11.1% of his games
When you get to play ......you get to build stats.
When you get shuffled back in favor of when you were drafted....well you dont get to play in Chicago for Lovie and Turner. Those two boneheads are just trying everything they can to prove they are right before the fan base unloads on them and kickes their sorry *** out of Chicago!!!!
This is the last year I believe many Grossman supporters are going to stick their necks out supporting a losing effort. Watch how many people turn sides once Grossman shows hes still the same butt muncher if in fact that happens.
Hampton_Fan: staleyrulz: Grossman throws for over 250 yards in 21.9% of his games and over 200 yards in 43.8% of his games Orton throws for over 250 yards in 0% of his games and over 200 yards in 11.1% of his games When you get to play ......you get to build stats. When you get shuffled back in favor of when you were drafted....well you dont get to play in Chicago for Lovie and Turner. Those two boneheads are just trying everything they can to prove they are right before the fan base unloads on them and kickes their sorry *** out of Chicago!!!! This is the last year I believe many Grossman supporters are going to stick their necks out supporting a losing effort. Watch how many people turn sides once Grossman shows hes still the same butt muncher if in fact that happens.
It took Orton's 7th games to eclipse 200 yards in a game and Grossman did it 3 times by his 7th game.
It took Orton's 7th game to eclipse 200 yards in a game(which he has only dones twice) and Grossman did it 3 times by his 7th game. Your arguement doesn't make sense.....those stats quoted above are averages/game not season.
If you don't support Grossman you might as well not support Orton....they are the same....just one guy throws for more yards. 3rd string will get playing time if Grossman doesn't succeed and Orton plays as he always has. If Orton plays this year he better show something better then he did at the end of last season, because the games against the Saints &Vikings were pathetic for being against some of the poorest pass defenses in the league.
staleyrulz: Hampton_Fan: staleyrulz: Grossman throws for over 250 yards in 21.9% of his games and over 200 yards in 43.8% of his games Orton throws for over 250 yards in 0% of his games and over 200 yards in 11.1% of his games When you get to play ......you get to build stats. When you get shuffled back in favor of when you were drafted....well you dont get to play in Chicago for Lovie and Turner. Those two boneheads are just trying everything they can to prove they are right before the fan base unloads on them and kickes their sorry *** out of Chicago!!!! This is the last year I believe many Grossman supporters are going to stick their necks out supporting a losing effort. Watch how many people turn sides once Grossman shows hes still the same butt muncher if in fact that happens. It took Orton's 7th game to eclipse 200 yards in a game(which he has only dones twice) and Grossman did it 3 times by his 7th game. Your arguement doesn't make sense.....those stats quoted above are averages/game not season.
Dude, Im looking to argue with you or anyone else here. I shouldnt even have to say this but will once again......
In my opinion......Orton has shown MORE potential for becomming a starting QB in his short time starting for the Bears than Rex has in 5 (count them) FIVE seasons. Its not Ortons fault Rex gets hurt easily, has no nerve for the position, and gets benched. Kyle HAS earned his chance to start and like I said earlier (which you evidently didnt read).....Grossmans supporters are going to be in the bottom of the basket like his jock straps hiding from public if he blows it again this season. I said IF he blows it again. his fans are going to be hanging their heads knowing they were boneheads themselves.
I've seen it with people who get hooked on a certain stock that they believe will rebound.......only to have it drag them into the gutter along with their losses. It happens alot because people get fixated on a sports player just like in my analogy compared to a stock they love. Both will take you down and before ya know it they are gone! It happens and is happening here.
Orton on the other hand set records for Bears and NFL rookies drafted 4th or lower. His 10 wins set an NFL record for victories by a rookie QB drafted in the fourth round or lower since the common draft was instituted in 1967. He also is 2nd in the NFL with wins by a rookie behind Ben Rothlisberger of the Steelers who had 13.
In my opinion Orton has earned a fair shot at being our starter with a win loss record of 12-6 out of the 18 games hes started for this team.
That's fine no argueing just trying to get a feel of what people think of the truth instead of the perception inflicted by the media calling Kyle a game manager and Rex a disaster.
I don't really like the whole start a guy because he deserves the chance theory though..........Bobby Engram was let go for that very reason to give other receivers a chance...Booker turned out before getting traded, but Robinson got injured, and then we were left dead in the water w/ nothing.
I think you play the best guy. The difference is slight but I think the stats show who has the best ability. I do think a QB of the future should be high on the priority list involving trade, free-agent, or draft in the next year. If Kyle can finally put a brilliant game together he may win me over......but I am not convinced he can do it yet.......I believe Rex can....will it consistency ever click w/ him? is the million dollar question.
Grossman throws for a rating of at least 80 in 46.9% of his games
Orton throws for a rating of at least 80 in 27.8% of his games
Grossman Rating on own 1-20 yd line 51.9 since 05 (couldn't find earlier stats) and a 6.3% chance of interception
Ortons Rating on own 1-20 yd lind 57.2 w/ a 2% chance of an interception
staleyrulz: Hampton_Fan: calabis:Yeah, when Orton makes a mistake it usually is not critical, as Rex seems to screw up at every critical moment With the game on the line and Rex being pressured, tell me this doesnt apply to Rexbots and Neckbeard Army members alike. NOTE: This behavior amplifies if hes already been sacked or thrown an interception. When Rex drops back and winds up his he-man arm, and makes that last step backward (off his back foot)......he "Lets her fly". EVERY Bears fan in the stadium, gasps, clench's their teeth and silently says a short prayer for either a catch by ANYONE eligible wearing a Bears jersey or to completely miss the field. What a pathetic way to watch a football game at the stadium or at home. Being on the verge of throwing a brick into a $3000 Plasma screen in pure frustration or wiping the sweat from your forehead while 'Thanking the football Gods for a completion". Thats what its like watching Grossman play the last two seasons for me. Are you saying you have faith in Orton to perform better or give you a sense of ease, I have always got that nervous feeling when the score is close in the end, no matter who the QB, FG kicker, or defense is on the field. I really don't get a comfortable feeling w/ Orton in unless the defense is getting takeaways and were just running the clock only worrying about the runningbacks fumbling. I like the improvement I've seen from Orton, but I can't see a franchise QB in him. Rex has been inconsistent, a gambler, and frustrating at times, but other times he's been lights out sensational. My opinion about Grossman is that he has too much confidence in his arm and loses it all at the slightest hit on his ego. I can only he hope he gets his head into the games instead of party night. Orton hasn't shown the ability to make a game fun to watch yet, except against 3rd string players in preseason when Bradley was his go to guy. Maybe he can put it together, but I highly doubt any QB under Turner will have success desired as long as continues to run his 10 play game plan every game.
Your saying Rex is the partier? Because of the one time he made a mistake on New Years Eve? And Orton is not a partier because theres 20 pictures of him wasted on the internet with bottles of liquor in his hands. Its pretty well known that Orton had problems with alcahol early in his career. Rex, not so much.
DPecilunas: staleyrulz: Hampton_Fan: calabis:Yeah, when Orton makes a mistake it usually is not critical, as Rex seems to screw up at every critical moment With the game on the line and Rex being pressured, tell me this doesnt apply to Rexbots and Neckbeard Army members alike. NOTE: This behavior amplifies if hes already been sacked or thrown an interception. When Rex drops back and winds up his he-man arm, and makes that last step backward (off his back foot)......he "Lets her fly". EVERY Bears fan in the stadium, gasps, clench's their teeth and silently says a short prayer for either a catch by ANYONE eligible wearing a Bears jersey or to completely miss the field. What a pathetic way to watch a football game at the stadium or at home. Being on the verge of throwing a brick into a $3000 Plasma screen in pure frustration or wiping the sweat from your forehead while 'Thanking the football Gods for a completion". Thats what its like watching Grossman play the last two seasons for me. Are you saying you have faith in Orton to perform better or give you a sense of ease, I have always got that nervous feeling when the score is close in the end, no matter who the QB, FG kicker, or defense is on the field. I really don't get a comfortable feeling w/ Orton in unless the defense is getting takeaways and were just running the clock only worrying about the runningbacks fumbling. I like the improvement I've seen from Orton, but I can't see a franchise QB in him. Rex has been inconsistent, a gambler, and frustrating at times, but other times he's been lights out sensational. My opinion about Grossman is that he has too much confidence in his arm and loses it all at the slightest hit on his ego. I can only he hope he gets his head into the games instead of party night. Orton hasn't shown the ability to make a game fun to watch yet, except against 3rd string players in preseason when Bradley was his go to guy. Maybe he can put it together, but I highly doubt any QB under Turner will have success desired as long as continues to run his 10 play game plan every game. Your saying Rex is the partier? Because of the one time he made a mistake on New Years Eve? And Orton is not a partier because theres 20 pictures of him wasted on the internet with bottles of liquor in his hands. Its pretty well known that Orton had problems with alcahol early in his career. Rex, not so much.
The remark was facetious and a little bit of a knock on the 0.0 game around New Years......I don't know what he has his head in but I wish he had the passion and insatiable urges to be coached and coach himself w/ film like Peyton..... instead of just saying I need to get better. Good results come from hard work and determination. Talent alone doesn't cut in the NFL. I'd like to see this from all of our QBs.