Philo: DA_MidwayNation: Philo:I think that if the Bears are honestly convinced that Kyle Orton has a higher floor than Rex Grossman's ceiling, that it's time to find another team to root for until this management and coaching staff is gone.I refuse to follow a team that thinks less than mediocre is great. Don't let the door hit you on the way out than, if Orton can give you 2 touchdowns 186 yards and No turnovers in almost every game I am happy with that. The Other Touchdowns can come from everywhere else either on the ground by Forte or Jones, The defense creating turnovers and taking it back for touchdowns or on special teams from Hester. How this team is built it's not all that necessary to have a QB throw for almost 400 yards and 3+ touchdowns. We just need a QB that doesn't turn the ball over and give the opposing offense more time of possession to wear down the defense. Orton has given us 2 TD's a game in 2 of 18 games. You're prayer never happened. He also averages more than one TO per game (20 in 18 starts)I'm sick of your Orton fans making up stats for Orton to achieve that he has never achieved, then thinking you are the only reasonable posters on the board.On top of that here comes the lie again that with Orton in there we win the ToP. We were 28th in the NFL in 2005, and the ONLY game we won the ToP with Orton in 2007 was the GB game where we rushed 45 times to only 15 passes so even THEN Orton didn't win us the ToP.The only people I won't miss is every ignorant Orton fans and their imagined stats.
DA_MidwayNation: Philo:I think that if the Bears are honestly convinced that Kyle Orton has a higher floor than Rex Grossman's ceiling, that it's time to find another team to root for until this management and coaching staff is gone.I refuse to follow a team that thinks less than mediocre is great. Don't let the door hit you on the way out than, if Orton can give you 2 touchdowns 186 yards and No turnovers in almost every game I am happy with that. The Other Touchdowns can come from everywhere else either on the ground by Forte or Jones, The defense creating turnovers and taking it back for touchdowns or on special teams from Hester. How this team is built it's not all that necessary to have a QB throw for almost 400 yards and 3+ touchdowns. We just need a QB that doesn't turn the ball over and give the opposing offense more time of possession to wear down the defense.
Philo:I think that if the Bears are honestly convinced that Kyle Orton has a higher floor than Rex Grossman's ceiling, that it's time to find another team to root for until this management and coaching staff is gone.I refuse to follow a team that thinks less than mediocre is great.
Don't let the door hit you on the way out than, if Orton can give you 2 touchdowns 186 yards and No turnovers in almost every game I am happy with that. The Other Touchdowns can come from everywhere else either on the ground by Forte or Jones, The defense creating turnovers and taking it back for touchdowns or on special teams from Hester. How this team is built it's not all that necessary to have a QB throw for almost 400 yards and 3+ touchdowns. We just need a QB that doesn't turn the ball over and give the opposing offense more time of possession to wear down the defense.
Haven't we been here before? As their careers progress it seems........
Orton is Shane Matthews
Grossman is Jim Miller
The choice of who you favor depends on what you like to watch clock tick or big plays....until the next great hope is drafted.
So we wait impatiently, tensley nitpicking at what will be insignificant in 4-5 years
I think Grossman has better intermediate range accuracy than Orton.....but I think Orton is better at seeing and defeating the blitz than Grossman, this alone could potentially favor Orton, since Jerry Angelo believes more football games are lost than won, theoretically, they would choose Orton.
I'd love to have a chart of the distance of the interceptions between Orton and Grossman, maybe my theory is wrong, but I have a mental picture in my mind of Orton dumping off to wolf, and Wolf going to 40 yards, and then Grossman dumping off to wolf, and getting int'd.
MBM:I had to work 2nd shift today...on my way in, I was listening to the Score. Lawrence Holmes w/ Pat Boyle(?) were on. Boyle mentioned he heard from his source with the Bears that while there is a "QB Competition" the plan is that Kyle Orton is the QB the Bears have in mind to win the comp. Lawrence Holmes concurred adding that while the team likes Rex's "ceiling" and his potential a lot, they are quite sold on Orton's "floor" being higher than Rex's. For Rex to win the competition, he'd have to do A LOT to overtake Orton.Could have knocked me over with a feather with that one!I was prepared to hear that the game was rigged for Rex to come out ahead. But it kinda of makes sense. They got a lot younger on O, providing Williams, Forte, and Bennett make the team plus several others that were drafted and undrafted. Which of the two would be better to work with younger players? Rex, the gambler? or Kyle, Mr. Steady?
If that was the case they never would have re-signed Rex. They would have let him go, and kept Griese. People can hope and pray all they want, but the offense wasn't set up for Orton to get the job. They opened the competition, and that's it. Whoever wins it wins it. There's no way they brought Rex back to put him in a bogus comp, they would have named Orton the starter, and let Rex go wherever he wanted.
Orton 05
Orton 07
Grossman 07
Grossman 06
TeXaSBearfan
I hope this helps w/ your post
I would have to say Rex's inability to see around and over the pocket of the o-line is the main contributing factor.
That is so Cliche' teams that are winning superbowls are not doing it with game managers,they are doing it with playmakers.That is our problem we buy into this whole "this is our game" theory.That is the way we do it.Well we have been doing it all wrong apparently,cause we havn't even sniffed a super bowl in 23 years except behind who???
Kardzilla: DA_MidwayNation: Philo:I think that if the Bears are honestly convinced that Kyle Orton has a higher floor than Rex Grossman's ceiling, that it's time to find another team to root for until this management and coaching staff is gone.I refuse to follow a team that thinks less than mediocre is great. Don't let the door hit you on the way out than, if Orton can give you 2 touchdowns 186 yards and No turnovers in almost every game I am happy with that. The Other Touchdowns can come from everywhere else either on the ground by Forte or Jones, The defense creating turnovers and taking it back for touchdowns or on special teams from Hester. How this team is built it's not all that necessary to have a QB throw for almost 400 yards and 3+ touchdowns. We just need a QB that doesn't turn the ball over and give the opposing offense more time of possession to wear down the defense. That is so Cliche' teams that are winning superbowls are not doing it with game managers,they are doing it with playmakers.That is our problem we buy into this whole "this is our game" theory.That is the way we do it.Well we have been doing it all wrong apparently,cause we havn't even sniffed a super bowl in 23 years except behind who???
psychobear:I'd just like to take this opportunity to say DJC, that you were right about Benson and Jones. I wanted that power running game and thought that Jones was the problem.
I just noticed another Grossman myth in looking closer at the splits from ESPN
Myth: Rex Grossman is always trying to go long
Grossman in 07 attempted a pass less then 20 yards 89.7% of the time
In 06 86.0% of the time
Orton in 07 attempted a pass less then 20 yards 88.6% of the time
in 05 87.2% of the time
That even shocks me
staleyrulz: I just noticed another Grossman myth in looking closer at the splits from ESPN Myth: Rex Grossman is always trying to go long Grossman in 07 attempted a pass less then 20 yards 89.7% of the time In 06 86.0% of the time Orton in 07 attempted a pass less then 20 yards 88.6% of the time in 05 87.2% of the time That even shocks me
People only remember Rex's more because some of them were complete.
you know really, all these stats are meaningless. The real issue for each guys is progression, development and maturity within the game. For either guy, stats will improve if those things have or are in the process of taking place.
I like to use Bradshaw as a case study of a guy that was downright terrible in his first few seasons as a starter. Even when the team was successful, he was not a major contributor to their success, but Noll stuck with this guy and ultimately won 4 SBs with Bradshaw as QB. I'm not say either of our guys is or will be the caliber of QB Bradshaw was, I'm just making the point that development is necessary.
In 1970 Bradshaw threw 24 INTs and 6 TDs
In 1971 he threw 22 INTs and 13 TDs
In 1972 he threw 12 INTs and 12 TDs, the team finished the regular season at 11-3 and eventually lost to the undefeated Dolphins in the AFC championship.
Mattm: Philo: DA_MidwayNation: Philo:I think that if the Bears are honestly convinced that Kyle Orton has a higher floor than Rex Grossman's ceiling, that it's time to find another team to root for until this management and coaching staff is gone.I refuse to follow a team that thinks less than mediocre is great. Don't let the door hit you on the way out than, if Orton can give you 2 touchdowns 186 yards and No turnovers in almost every game I am happy with that. The Other Touchdowns can come from everywhere else either on the ground by Forte or Jones, The defense creating turnovers and taking it back for touchdowns or on special teams from Hester. How this team is built it's not all that necessary to have a QB throw for almost 400 yards and 3+ touchdowns. We just need a QB that doesn't turn the ball over and give the opposing offense more time of possession to wear down the defense. Orton has given us 2 TD's a game in 2 of 18 games. You're prayer never happened. He also averages more than one TO per game (20 in 18 starts)I'm sick of your Orton fans making up stats for Orton to achieve that he has never achieved, then thinking you are the only reasonable posters on the board.On top of that here comes the lie again that with Orton in there we win the ToP. We were 28th in the NFL in 2005, and the ONLY game we won the ToP with Orton in 2007 was the GB game where we rushed 45 times to only 15 passes so even THEN Orton didn't win us the ToP.The only people I won't miss is every ignorant Orton fans and their imagined stats.C'mon Philo don't hold back tell us ignorant Orton fans how you really feel.
Philo: Mattm: Philo: DA_MidwayNation: Philo:I think that if the Bears are honestly convinced that Kyle Orton has a higher floor than Rex Grossman's ceiling, that it's time to find another team to root for until this management and coaching staff is gone.I refuse to follow a team that thinks less than mediocre is great. Don't let the door hit you on the way out than, if Orton can give you 2 touchdowns 186 yards and No turnovers in almost every game I am happy with that. The Other Touchdowns can come from everywhere else either on the ground by Forte or Jones, The defense creating turnovers and taking it back for touchdowns or on special teams from Hester. How this team is built it's not all that necessary to have a QB throw for almost 400 yards and 3+ touchdowns. We just need a QB that doesn't turn the ball over and give the opposing offense more time of possession to wear down the defense. Orton has given us 2 TD's a game in 2 of 18 games. You're prayer never happened. He also averages more than one TO per game (20 in 18 starts)I'm sick of your Orton fans making up stats for Orton to achieve that he has never achieved, then thinking you are the only reasonable posters on the board.On top of that here comes the lie again that with Orton in there we win the ToP. We were 28th in the NFL in 2005, and the ONLY game we won the ToP with Orton in 2007 was the GB game where we rushed 45 times to only 15 passes so even THEN Orton didn't win us the ToP.The only people I won't miss is every ignorant Orton fans and their imagined stats.C'mon Philo don't hold back tell us ignorant Orton fans how you really feel.I'm pretty sure I just did.It's one thing to like a player. It's totally another to try and convince the world the player you like is a world beater. Most of you Orton fans refuse to address just how horrible he ranks to the average NFL QB, instead screaming about how he 'caught up to Rex' while in the same breath screaming about how horrible Rex was in 2007. Maybe, just maybe, Rex Grossman caught DOWN to Orton?
And you still continue to defend him? The statement "Most of you Orton fans refuse to address just how horrible he ranks to the average NFL QB" can be addressed to Grossman fans as well.
Timufcwwf:I think Pat is wrong and maybe it's the opposite. You don't sign Rex for a year just to sit him, now i'm not saying there is no competition, but I highly doubt Kyle has an early edge over Rex even before training camp. I think he may be mistaken. I think the competition runs into preseason and Rex gets the nod based on his big play ability and improved mechanics, JMO anyways.
I agree with you here.
Actually in the Bears Position Break down for QB's
It they said the same things about Rex they always say, Mechanics, and needs to relax in the pocket.
They said of Orton, that he looks relaxed, and has had better accuracy. I wanted to say better than rex, but that would be reading into it.
In the first of nine position previews in advance of training camp, offensive coordinator Ron Turner discusses the Bears quarterbacks
What must Rex or Kyle do to win the job?Just perform consistently and efficiently at a high level. The evaluation will be based on consistency; who’s doing everything most consistently well.
What impressed you about the way Rex performed during offseason workouts?The biggest thing with Rex that I’ve seen is his focus. He’s been locked in, really keyed in, doing a great job. He’s consistently done what we’ve asked him to do, and he should with the years he’s had in the system. He needs to go out and play relaxed and stay focused.
What impressed you about the way Kyle performed during offseason workouts?The biggest thing with Kyle is that he’s playing very relaxed. He has the same focus I talked about with Rex, but Kyle’s playing very relaxed and throwing the ball with better accuracy and touch.