Playoffs! Playoffs?? Playoffs!!!!!

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Turner, Sometimes you have to steer a horse around the barrels, sometimes you have to give the horse free rein to jump the creek. A good rider knows when to steer and when to give free rein.

With as many supporters as he had you'd think Rex would've had better ball security.

Shajen:

Ole69:

Regardless of on which side of the QB divide you are, re-signing him this year would be ill advised, simply because we don't have to. See if he can keep it going next season.

Do you want to have a Derek-Anderson-like situation blow up in our faces?

Capt Zuma-Mullet here is 100% correct.  I don't know why this thread didn't end with this post.

;-)

Why thank you, Shajen. Would you like a Zuma?

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Consigliere, Left Tackle Mafia

Member #2 of the Izzy in the Hizzy Club -- 2,010 tipped passes and counting

lmoney75:

Big_Tyme_D:

bearsfansincebirth:

Didn't look at all players but did look at the top 5 rated and they have 8, 6, 4, 13, and 4 passes thrown more than 30 yards in the air. Not exactly alot of passes for any of them and if you haven't noticed Kyle hasnt had much time to throw the longer ones

Romo: 31+...8/16
Rivers: 31+...6/19
Warner: 31+...4/10
Brees: 31+...13/26
Pennington:31+... 4/7

Kyle: 31+.. 0/8

I'm not sure what splits you were looking at ... but those are the completions and attempts of the current top five QBs. and as I said he is the only one to not hit the pass even once. He has had time to make the pass.. but he usually will choose a shorter route. If you look in the 21-30 range he takes that pass as much as any one.

However... I never said Kyle was bad in that range... I said he has been declining since the break. You mention what I said about Kyle earlier this season... and one of the things I noted was his then major improvement in that range. Before the break he was around 45% or better in that range.. he is now at 37.8%. Kyle has hit passes in that range which were taken to the house for TDs (50+ total yards Olsen, Booker)... and that of course boast up the QBr for that range.

No matter what... we have him under contract for next season now. There is no rush to sign him. If he sucks it up next year... he will be gone... If he lights it up he will get paid. There is no point taking a premature risk before next season.

You suggest signing him to a mid-level contract... but guess what. If he turns around and sucks it up... we have tied up valuable money in him the team really can't afford to waste. But if he lights it up... he'll be sitting there demanding more money and a new contract.

So since he is under contract... just wait and see. We did the same thing with Grossman and I see no reason to do different with Kyle.

As far as game planning for Orton... let me clarify. The first four games of the year... Orton was not killing teams. They game plan of course... but they stuck with their normal defenses for the most part. you didn't see any special adjustments being made to counter Orton. Orton got comfortable and started hurting teams.... they took notice. After the break... you saw them approach him differently. That is the game planning I'm talking about. Teams have made adjustments... most notably using more 5 DB sets and defending the TEs with DBs instead of LBs. They neutralized Kyles favorite targets outside of Forte.

I do agree with you on teams making the adjustments and stopping the gameplan...but a lot of the reason for that gameplan at this point in the season is because they (Turner) are calling all these short routes to keep Kyle from getting hit as much with the injury.  I think in the next few weeks as Kyle continues to heal, we will see him open it up more like he was starting to do before getting injured. 

I do agree with just leaving his contract alone right now.  There is no point in giving him an extension without knowing how he will do next season.  If he had ripped it up all this season, it would be a different story.

bearsfansincebirth.. I must have been too sleepy when I addressed your post.  Ehhh... mis-read what you said.

Imoney75... Kyle hadn't comnnected on the deep routes prior to the injury.  But most of Kyle's declining play has not been related to the injury... it has been teams approaching him differently and Kyle making bad decisions.  his three INTs this past week were all the result of bad decisions   I've watched too much football and have seen too many QBs playing on bum ankles. The ankle limits thier ability to go down field effectively... but has little effect on the short and mid stuff.  And no effect what so ever on thier decision making.

The play calling is virtually the same... ie heavy on the short to intermediate stuff.. but teams are playing him differently.

The injury 'may' have effected the GB game some... but has not been a factor since.

But Kyle deserves the chance to right his own ship.  If that were Rex in thier (and it was in similiar circumstances) Iwould have said the same thing.  He is young.. so let him play it out.  But a contract before next season..... no.

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"You can't write off something that hasn't happened yet.

Yes, Orton had a bad game against the Vikings, but honestly it was his first real horrible game all season."

What about the GB game? He led to the offense to the Packers side only TWICE the entire game!?!

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Alex Brown on Rex:
"He took us to a Super Bowl and people hated him for it."
Jerry Angelo on Orton:
"He needs to have a good yr before we can judge him."

KetelKaotic:

LOL.. Orton is the reason we wont make the playoffs and if we do make it its because Minn failed to win 2 of their last 4 and we got lucky ....

I have to agree. As badly as these people around here that want to pat him on the back, Orton has cost us these last two games we lost. His play was bad, and whether anyone else wants to admit it, for the most part of the year, he has been pretty inconsistant. He doesn't deserve a contract extension right now.

What needs to happen is for us to bring in another veteran guy to compete for the job as starter. We also need to add a high draft pick, somewhere in the first three rounds, to come in and properly develop. Orton can't beat another veteran guy out for the starting job. He only beat Rex because Lovie wanted him to be the starter from the beginning. But add another veteran that Lovie doesn't have in his doghouse, and we'll see a lot steadier, productive QB play.

If Orton beats out that veteran guy, and does well next year, sign him to his extension then. But there is definately no need to rush into that deal and regret it big time later on.

Pumpirules:

I think it's the right move to make. If somehow the bears make the playoffs, Kyle should be rewarded.. With a team this inept at taking control. This might be the biggest hole we've had to dig out of all season.

With the playoffs, it seems like Kyle has to play well.. We play the Saints, Packers, Texans.. all teams we will have to score against.

I don't know if it will happen, but if it does. Sign him.

yep

I still don't understand how some of you are denying him signing him long term, if he indeed comes out the next 4 games, averages a 90 QB Rating.. and leads us to the playoffs..

That takes a lot of gaul, and determination to accomplish that.

Now again, i'm not saying HE WILL; I think a lot of people are basing this off of what he's been doing lately.. but if he does that, i'd sign him long term in a heart beat.. and honestly if Rex had done that in 2006 he would have been locked up for sure.. and honestly I would have paid him if Rex didn't fizzle the way he did.

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Jesus didn't come down for the righteous, but for the sinners like me and you.

Pumpirules:

I still don't understand how some of you are denying him signing him long term, if he indeed comes out the next 4 games, averages a 90 QB Rating.. and leads us to the playoffs..

That takes a lot of gaul, and determination to accomplish that.

Now again, i'm not saying HE WILL; I think a lot of people are basing this off of what he's been doing lately.. but if he does that, i'd sign him long term in a heart beat.. and honestly if Rex had done that in 2006 he would have been locked up for sure.. and honestly I would have paid him if Rex didn't fizzle the way he did.

you never seemed like a nuthugger until now, pumpi. We shouldn't re-sign him this year because we don't need to. See if he returns to form this season, and keeps it up next season. Isn't that what any Bear fan has wanted out of a QB? Good play for more than one season?

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Consigliere, Left Tackle Mafia

Member #2 of the Izzy in the Hizzy Club -- 2,010 tipped passes and counting

Ole69:

you never seemed like a nuthugger until now, pumpi. We shouldn't re-sign him this year because we don't need to. See if he returns to form this season, and keeps it up next season. Isn't that what any Bear fan has wanted out of a QB? Good play for more than one season?

When have we gotten good play for more than one season since the Kramer years?

Grossman's 06 was a subpar year, he did a lot of good things.. but the terrible things he did leveled off the good.

If Orton has a good 4 games, then he'd have a good overall season. would you agree with that?

We need a bit of consistency in here.. with Orton's emergence, and continuing development. If he continues to snag and suck.. then yes, don't re-sign him yet.. if we dont make the playoffs.. then yes don't re-sign him.

But again people read what I am saying, If orton has a good-great 4 games.. and leads us into the playoffs.. he deserves to be rewarded.

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Jesus didn't come down for the righteous, but for the sinners like me and you.

Pumpirules:

Ole69:

you never seemed like a nuthugger until now, pumpi. We shouldn't re-sign him this year because we don't need to. See if he returns to form this season, and keeps it up next season. Isn't that what any Bear fan has wanted out of a QB? Good play for more than one season?

When have we gotten good play for more than one season since the Kramer years?

Grossman's 06 was a subpar year, he did a lot of good things.. but the terrible things he did leveled off the good.

If Orton has a good 4 games, then he'd have a good overall season. would you agree with that?

We need a bit of consistency in here.. with Orton's emergence, and continuing development. If he continues to snag and suck.. then yes, don't re-sign him yet.. if we dont make the playoffs.. then yes don't re-sign him.

But again people read what I am saying, If orton has a good-great 4 games.. and leads us into the playoffs.. he deserves to be rewarded.

It just wont happen, sorry.

FantasticBears:

It just wont happen, sorry.

See, at least now someone admits why they disagree! He just thinks it won't happen.. which I think is what 80% of the people posting in here are saying when they're posting.

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Jesus didn't come down for the righteous, but for the sinners like me and you.

FantasticBears:

Pumpirules:

Ole69:

you never seemed like a nuthugger until now, pumpi. We shouldn't re-sign him this year because we don't need to. See if he returns to form this season, and keeps it up next season. Isn't that what any Bear fan has wanted out of a QB? Good play for more than one season?

When have we gotten good play for more than one season since the Kramer years?

Grossman's 06 was a subpar year, he did a lot of good things.. but the terrible things he did leveled off the good.

If Orton has a good 4 games, then he'd have a good overall season. would you agree with that?

We need a bit of consistency in here.. with Orton's emergence, and continuing development. If he continues to snag and suck.. then yes, don't re-sign him yet.. if we dont make the playoffs.. then yes don't re-sign him.

But again people read what I am saying, If orton has a good-great 4 games.. and leads us into the playoffs.. he deserves to be rewarded.

It just wont happen, sorry.

The way things are shaping up in the NFC North, 8-8 could well take the Division title.  The Vikings may lose their "Williams Wall" to suspension and not win another game this season.  The Packers have lost 4 of their 5 games since their bye.  And the Bears have the easiest schedule left of the three.  Hell, it isn't impossible to sneak in with a 7-9 record this year

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"All players will have competition. Every player is in that same group. But Kyle Orton’s our quarterback. He has done a lot of good things for us this year.." - Lovie Smith

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Member #1 of the Kyle Orton Neckbeard Army

Pumpirules:

I still don't understand how some of you are denying him signing him long term, if he indeed comes out the next 4 games, averages a 90 QB Rating.. and leads us to the playoffs..

That takes a lot of gaul, and determination to accomplish that.

Now again, i'm not saying HE WILL; I think a lot of people are basing this off of what he's been doing lately.. but if he does that, i'd sign him long term in a heart beat.. and honestly if Rex had done that in 2006 he would have been locked up for sure.. and honestly I would have paid him if Rex didn't fizzle the way he did.

I don't care if he comes out with a 158 rating. I don't care if Forte ends up with 8000yds. The Bears have a history of getting flash in the pans.
There's no need to lock us into a long term high priced contract so don't do it.

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Turner, Sometimes you have to steer a horse around the barrels, sometimes you have to give the horse free rein to jump the creek. A good rider knows when to steer and when to give free rein.

With as many supporters as he had you'd think Rex would've had better ball security.

85in25:

Pumpirules:

I still don't understand how some of you are denying him signing him long term, if he indeed comes out the next 4 games, averages a 90 QB Rating.. and leads us to the playoffs..

That takes a lot of gaul, and determination to accomplish that.

Now again, i'm not saying HE WILL; I think a lot of people are basing this off of what he's been doing lately.. but if he does that, i'd sign him long term in a heart beat.. and honestly if Rex had done that in 2006 he would have been locked up for sure.. and honestly I would have paid him if Rex didn't fizzle the way he did.

I don't care if he comes out with a 158 rating. I don't care if Forte ends up with 8000yds. The Bears have a history of getting flash in the pans.
There's no need to lock us into a long term high priced contract so don't do it.

"Flashes in the pan?"  Like Payton?  Like Urlacher?  Like Sayers or Butkus or Ditka?  I think even Hester went long enough as a great return man not to be considered a "flash in the pan."

Anyway, NFL contracts are NOT guaranteed.  If a player gets cut by a team at any point, they don't owe him another dime.  And the Bears tend to structure their contracts with fairly low base salaries with lots of performance escalators, some which are virtually impossible to meet.  JA doesn't let himself get "locked into" long term high priced contracts that don't pan out...

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"All players will have competition. Every player is in that same group. But Kyle Orton’s our quarterback. He has done a lot of good things for us this year.." - Lovie Smith

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Member #1 of the Kyle Orton Neckbeard Army

Pumpirules:

I still don't understand how some of you are denying him signing him long term, if he indeed comes out the next 4 games, averages a 90 QB Rating.. and leads us to the playoffs..

That takes a lot of gaul, and determination to accomplish that.

Now again, i'm not saying HE WILL; I think a lot of people are basing this off of what he's been doing lately.. but if he does that, i'd sign him long term in a heart beat.. and honestly if Rex had done that in 2006 he would have been locked up for sure.. and honestly I would have paid him if Rex didn't fizzle the way he did.

Or you can blame it on his ankle...a good quarterback will lead his team to victory despite his condition.  I don't want an excuse.

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I acknowledge and accept that Jack Daniels guzzlin', neckbeard sportin', mullet wearin', mobility lackin', hillbilly lookin', helicopter slidin', ball "I tried" spikin', but cerebrally superior Kyle Orton is the starting quarterback for our Chicago Bears!
Go Gators! Jan 8th, Florida Gators vs. Oklahoma Sooners

ORLFLBEAR:

Pumpirules:

I still don't understand how some of you are denying him signing him long term, if he indeed comes out the next 4 games, averages a 90 QB Rating.. and leads us to the playoffs..

That takes a lot of gaul, and determination to accomplish that.

Now again, i'm not saying HE WILL; I think a lot of people are basing this off of what he's been doing lately.. but if he does that, i'd sign him long term in a heart beat.. and honestly if Rex had done that in 2006 he would have been locked up for sure.. and honestly I would have paid him if Rex didn't fizzle the way he did.

Or you can blame it on his ankle...a good quarterback will lead his team to victory despite his condition.  I don't want an excuse.

Who did that? lol

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Jesus didn't come down for the righteous, but for the sinners like me and you.

Dennis:

85in25:

I don't care if he comes out with a 158 rating. I don't care if Forte ends up with 8000yds. The Bears have a history of getting flash in the pans.
There's no need to lock us into a long term high priced contract so don't do it.

"Flashes in the pan?"  Like Payton?  Like Urlacher?  Like Sayers or Butkus or Ditka?  I think even Hester went long enough as a great return man not to be considered a "flash in the pan."

Anyway, NFL contracts are NOT guaranteed.  If a player gets cut by a team at any point, they don't owe him another dime.  And the Bears tend to structure their contracts with fairly low base salaries with lots of performance escalators, some which are virtually impossible to meet.  JA doesn't let himself get "locked into" long term high priced contracts that don't pan out...

ROFLMAO
You come up with a handful of players out of the whole history of the team and claim we don't have issues with flashes in the pans???
Payton didn't exactly do well when he was a rookie did he? How's Ditka's position been since?

Salaam, Cook, Grossman (add a bunch of other QBs who showed promise but for one reason or another didn't work out), Booker, Wade.
My 5 trumps your 5 because  I did not go back to ancient history to find them.
Also throw in draft busts given huge contracts that were pushed so hard that they showed flashes here and then and the list gets huge.

Just because you like Orton doesn't mean he won't do the same thing as Rex and fall flat next year.

Yes teams do owe percentages of contracts when they are cut.

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Turner, Sometimes you have to steer a horse around the barrels, sometimes you have to give the horse free rein to jump the creek. A good rider knows when to steer and when to give free rein.

With as many supporters as he had you'd think Rex would've had better ball security.

85in25:

Pumpirules:

I still don't understand how some of you are denying him signing him long term, if he indeed comes out the next 4 games, averages a 90 QB Rating.. and leads us to the playoffs..

That takes a lot of gaul, and determination to accomplish that.

Now again, i'm not saying HE WILL; I think a lot of people are basing this off of what he's been doing lately.. but if he does that, i'd sign him long term in a heart beat.. and honestly if Rex had done that in 2006 he would have been locked up for sure.. and honestly I would have paid him if Rex didn't fizzle the way he did.

I don't care if he comes out with a 158 rating. I don't care if Forte ends up with 8000yds. The Bears have a history of getting flash in the pans.
There's no need to lock us into a long term high priced contract so don't do it.

You don't sign him to a high priced contract after this season. You try to get him to sign for a mid-level QB rate (which would be a huge increase to what he is currently making). You say that there is "no reason" to sign him after this season. What about the fact that if we don't and comes out he and has a good couple games to begin next year his price will increase DRASTICALLY?  Orton has improved every year he has played and there is no reason to believe that won't continue. JA has always been good about structuring contracts to the Bears benefit. We have never been even close to having a cap problem while he has been the GM.  There is no way that he would sign Orton to a contract that is gonna break the team. A new contract, if he starts stinking, would maybe lighten the McCaskeys pockets a little bit but not hamstring the team.

I don't know about you but I care about the Bears team and not the McCaskeys profit margin.

end the thred now !

windy_city_warrior71:

end the thred now !

yea seriously. i dont get the big deal. i dont know why we're making a big deal on this. no matter which QB you like, it's just stupid bussiness wise to sign him right now when he has another year on his contract. see how he plays next year, and then pay him how he deserves after the season. case closed. no need to argue about that. that's just plain bussiness sense. Derek Anderson people. Derek Anderson!!!