removing to avoid confusion, as I think I was wrong
dbears54:Potential cap hits: 1. Brian Griese- $2.7 million ( unamortized bonus left)- 1.4 mill ( salary)- 300,000( roster bonus)= 1 million in cap space to cut 2. Darwin walker- 2.4 mill( unamortized bonus)-1.15 mill(salary)-$5.2 mill Rb)=Saves $3.95 mill to cut 3. Moose- 3mill( Sb)- 1.6 mill Salary- 500K Rb= 900,000 in cap space to cut 4. Fred miller- 2.2 Mill( Sb)- 4 mill salary = Saves $1.8 million to cut 5. Adam Archueta- 2 mill( Sb left- he got a 3 mill Sb and a 2 mill roster bonus for 2007= 5 mill guaranteed)- $730,000 salary= $1.28 million to cut 6. RMJ- $3 million(unamortized Sb)-$1.85 mill( salary)= $1.15 million to cut( but saves $9.5 mill in future salries in 2009/10)
Potential cap hits:
1. Brian Griese- $2.7 million ( unamortized bonus left)- 1.4 mill ( salary)- 300,000( roster bonus)= 1 million in cap space to cut
2. Darwin walker- 2.4 mill( unamortized bonus)-1.15 mill(salary)-$5.2 mill Rb)=Saves $3.95 mill to cut
3. Moose- 3mill( Sb)- 1.6 mill Salary- 500K Rb= 900,000 in cap space to cut
4. Fred miller- 2.2 Mill( Sb)- 4 mill salary = Saves $1.8 million to cut
5. Adam Archueta- 2 mill( Sb left- he got a 3 mill Sb and a 2 mill roster bonus for 2007= 5 mill guaranteed)- $730,000 salary= $1.28 million to cut
6. RMJ- $3 million(unamortized Sb)-$1.85 mill( salary)= $1.15 million to cut( but saves $9.5 mill in future salries in 2009/10)
dbears54: Name............... Base salary......Signing bonus(amortized) ......Other bonus(roster etc)........ Total 34. Olsen,G $370,000 $50,000 $4,025,000 $4,445,000
Name............... Base salary......Signing bonus(amortized) ......Other bonus(roster etc)........ Total
34. Olsen,G $370,000 $50,000 $4,025,000 $4,445,000
Just a quick question, is Greg Olsen's contract common for how a rookie contract is setup? I am just curious why the Bears are taking the $4 million hit in 2008. What exactly is an option bonus?
porkchopsnapplesauce: the_elric: From a cap perspective, whether or not the Bears' bank accounts are debited by $1.7M in 2008 (his salary, roster bonus) is irrelevant. Its not irrelevant because it is cap space that the Bears can spend on a different player if Griese was not on the team.
the_elric: From a cap perspective, whether or not the Bears' bank accounts are debited by $1.7M in 2008 (his salary, roster bonus) is irrelevant.
From a cap perspective, whether or not the Bears' bank accounts are debited by $1.7M in 2008 (his salary, roster bonus) is irrelevant.
Its not irrelevant because it is cap space that the Bears can spend on a different player if Griese was not on the team.
Cap space does effect how much the Bears can spend. The actual amount of cash debited from the Bears' bank accounts in any given year does not (obviously, there is a direct correlation between cap space and actual cash outlays).
The discussion is on how cutting players affects the cap space that the Bears can work with in 2008.
Read the thread again and you'll see that dbears54's accounting, in terms of cap space, is not correct. Bearsfansincebirth for the win=).
porkchopsnapplesauce: dbears54: Name............... Base salary......Signing bonus(amortized) ......Other bonus(roster etc)........ Total 34. Olsen,G $370,000 $50,000 $4,025,000 $4,445,000 Just a quick question, is Greg Olsen's contract common for how a rookie contract is setup? I am just curious why the Bears are taking the $4 million hit in 2008. What exactly is an option bonus?
Its getting more common on first round pikcs to stay under the rookie cap #'s to have a big roster bonus is the 2nd year, so the first years cap hit isn't that high
Ok, let me see if this is correct
$96,758,499 = 2008 roster with Griese (salary, roster bonus, 2008 signing bonus)
if Griese was cut tomorrow
$96,7758,499 (total cap with Griese)
- 1,400,000 (subtract the salary)
---------------------------------------
$95,358,499 (new total cap minus salary)
- $300,000 (subtract the roster bonus)
--------------------------------------
$95,058,499 (new total cap minus salary and roster bonus)
- $900,000 (subtract the 2008 portion of signing bonus since it was already included)
$ 94,158,499 (new total cap minus Griese)
+ $2,700,000 (Salary Cap penalty for cutting Griese early, includes 08,09,10 signing bonus)
------------------------------------------
$ 96,858,499 (Bears total Salary cap in '08 minus Griese on the roster)
Does that look correct?
the_elric: porkchopsnapplesauce: the_elric: From a cap perspective, whether or not the Bears' bank accounts are debited by $1.7M in 2008 (his salary, roster bonus) is irrelevant. Its not irrelevant because it is cap space that the Bears can spend on a different player if Griese was not on the team. Cap space does effect how much the Bears can spend. The actual amount of cash debited from the Bears' bank accounts in any given year does not (obviously, there is a direct correlation between cap space and actual cash outlays). The discussion is on how cutting players affects the cap space that the Bears can work with in 2008. Read the thread again and you'll see that dbears54's accounting, in terms of cap space, is not correct. Bearsfansincebirth for the win=).
You are incorrect and its tiresome now. Bearsincebirth is wrong as always.
What you both fail to grasp is we are taking the numbers OUT OF AN ALREADY SET BUDGET. THAT INCLUDES GRIESE's 2008 cap numbers( 1.7 million salray + 900K unamortized bonus).. to currently having roughly 20 million under the cap..
So that if you cut griese, you are taking his 2008 salary away( thus having 21.7 million now left under cap, BUT then you have to add cap his unamortized cap space( 2.7 mill) so it becomes $19 million under cap..
If you were starting from saying we do not have a "budget" of $116 million and NO PLAYERS ARE UNDER CONTRACT FOR 2008.. the correct answer is $2.7 million cap hit for the unamortized cap, but that is NOT what I'm talking about, we are doing a "working" current cap space, so his 2008 salary and bonus is COUNTED IN THE $96 million under contract. the bears currently have.. So you can not just dissapear the $1.7 million that is part of the 2008 cap space.. that is incorrect, sorry
I have a feeling someone is using many id's because its just too hard to beleive the exact saem mistake gets repeated annoyingly over and over and over..
porkchopsnapplesauce: Ok, let me see if this is correct $96,758,499 = 2008 roster with Griese (salary, roster bonus, 2008 signing bonus) if Griese was cut tomorrow $96,7758,499 (total cap with Griese) - 1,400,000 (subtract the salary) --------------------------------------- $95,358,499 (new total cap minus salary) - $300,000 (subtract the roster bonus) -------------------------------------- $95,058,499 (new total cap minus salary and roster bonus) - $900,000 (subtract the 2008 portion of signing bonus since it was already included) --------------------------------------- $ 94,158,499 (new total cap minus Griese) + $2,700,000 (Salary Cap penalty for cutting Griese early, includes 08,09,10 signing bonus) ------------------------------------------ $ 96,858,499 (Bears total Salary cap in '08 minus Griese on the roster) Does that look correct?
No you would not be subtracting the 900K for 2008( becuase he's not here),, it becomes part of the 2.7 million( bonus for 2008-2010)
so the total is $97,758.499
Or 1 million different
jessejames33: dbears54: Potential cap hits: 1. Brian Griese- $2.7 million ( unamortized bonus left)- 1.4 mill ( salary)- 300,000( roster bonus)= 1 million in cap space to cut 2. Darwin walker- 2.4 mill( unamortized bonus)-1.15 mill(salary)-$5.2 mill Rb)=Saves $3.95 mill to cut 3. Moose- 3mill( Sb)- 1.6 mill Salary- 500K Rb= 900,000 in cap space to cut 4. Fred miller- 2.2 Mill( Sb)- 4 mill salary = Saves $1.8 million to cut 5. Adam Archueta- 2 mill( Sb left- he got a 3 mill Sb and a 2 mill roster bonus for 2007= 5 mill guaranteed)- $730,000 salary= $1.28 million to cut 6. RMJ- $3 million(unamortized Sb)-$1.85 mill( salary)= $1.15 million to cut( but saves $9.5 mill in future salries in 2009/10) Thanks for posting this, DB54. IMO, we should cut all these guys.
dbears54: Potential cap hits: 1. Brian Griese- $2.7 million ( unamortized bonus left)- 1.4 mill ( salary)- 300,000( roster bonus)= 1 million in cap space to cut 2. Darwin walker- 2.4 mill( unamortized bonus)-1.15 mill(salary)-$5.2 mill Rb)=Saves $3.95 mill to cut 3. Moose- 3mill( Sb)- 1.6 mill Salary- 500K Rb= 900,000 in cap space to cut 4. Fred miller- 2.2 Mill( Sb)- 4 mill salary = Saves $1.8 million to cut 5. Adam Archueta- 2 mill( Sb left- he got a 3 mill Sb and a 2 mill roster bonus for 2007= 5 mill guaranteed)- $730,000 salary= $1.28 million to cut 6. RMJ- $3 million(unamortized Sb)-$1.85 mill( salary)= $1.15 million to cut( but saves $9.5 mill in future salries in 2009/10)
Not a problem, glad to help.... we shall see who remains or stays.
dbears54:No you would not be subtracting the 900K for 2008( becuase he's not here),, it becomes part of the 2.7 million( bonus for 2008-2010) so the total is $97,758.499 Or 1 million different
Not trying to give you a hard time, just trying to figure this out. You have the following listed for Griese in the 2008 roster
*15. Griese,B $1,400,000 $900,000 $300,000 $2,600,000
That tells me you already accounted for Griese's 2008 signing bonus in the $96,758,499 number. If I do not subtract the $900,000 from the $96,758,499, how can I include the 2008 $900,000 in the 2.7 million ($900,000 for 2008, $900,000 for 2009, and $900,000 for 2010)? If I do not subtract it, it would seem that I am adding it twice.
dbears54: the_elric: porkchopsnapplesauce: the_elric: From a cap perspective, whether or not the Bears' bank accounts are debited by $1.7M in 2008 (his salary, roster bonus) is irrelevant. Its not irrelevant because it is cap space that the Bears can spend on a different player if Griese was not on the team. Cap space does effect how much the Bears can spend. The actual amount of cash debited from the Bears' bank accounts in any given year does not (obviously, there is a direct correlation between cap space and actual cash outlays). The discussion is on how cutting players affects the cap space that the Bears can work with in 2008. Read the thread again and you'll see that dbears54's accounting, in terms of cap space, is not correct. Bearsfansincebirth for the win=). You are incorrect and its tiresome now. Bearsincebirth is wrong as always. What you both fail to grasp is we are taking the numbers OUT OF AN ALREADY SET BUDGET. THAT INCLUDES GRIESE's 2008 cap numbers( 1.7 million salray + 900K unamortized bonus).. to currently having roughly 20 million under the cap.. So that if you cut griese, you are taking his 2008 salary away( thus having 21.7 million now left under cap, BUT then you have to add cap his unamortized cap space( 2.7 mill) so it becomes $19 million under cap.. If you were starting from saying we do not have a "budget" of $116 million and NO PLAYERS ARE UNDER CONTRACT FOR 2008.. the correct answer is $2.7 million cap hit for the unamortized cap, but that is NOT what I'm talking about, we are doing a "working" current cap space, so his 2008 salary and bonus is COUNTED IN THE $96 million under contract. the bears currently have.. So you can not just dissapear the $1.7 million that is part of the 2008 cap space.. that is incorrect, sorry I have a feeling someone is using many id's because its just too hard to beleive the exact saem mistake gets repeated annoyingly over and over and over..
I can at least vouch for myself=). I'm not bearsfansincebirth, or any of the other guys.
After you cut Griese, his amortized sb from 2009 ($900K) and 2010 ($900K) will accelerate into 2008 (this amounts to $1.8M). The $900K amortized sb from 2008 has already been accounted for (you did say his cap hit for 2008 was $2.6M, which is amortized sb of $900K + 1.7M salary, didn't you??).
So, if he is cut...the following happens.
His $2.6M 2008 cap hit is reduced by $1.7M (his salary). However, the remaining amortized sb of $1.8M ($900K for 2009 and $900K for 2010) accelerate into 2008. Thus, if he is cut, he counts $2.7M against the cap.
porkchopsnapplesauce: dbears54:No you would not be subtracting the 900K for 2008( becuase he's not here),, it becomes part of the 2.7 million( bonus for 2008-2010) so the total is $97,758.499 Or 1 million different Not trying to give you a hard time, just trying to figure this out. You have the following listed for Griese in the 2008 roster *15. Griese,B $1,400,000 $900,000 $300,000 $2,600,000 That tells me you already accounted for Griese's 2008 signing bonus in the $96,758,499 number. If I do not subtract the $900,000 from the $96,758,499, how can I include the 2008 $900,000 in the 2.7 million ($900,000 for 2008, $900,000 for 2009, and $900,000 for 2010)? If I do not subtract it, it would seem that I am adding it twice.
and i'm not trying to give you a hard time, if already counted 900K( 2008).. you are accelerting 1.8 mill( 2009.2010) not 2.7 milliion..
So you have a "constant" $900,000 cost for 2008( his unamortized bonus),, and by cutting you "save" his roster/salary of $1.7 million, BUt have an additional "cost" of 1.8 million( 2009.2010 sb)= the $100,000 some posters keep talking about.. but what's not understood the "cost" to bears cap is the 900,000( 2008 constant)+ the $100,000 difference =$1 million.. not just the 100,000 difference of unamortized bonus to salary, which is what he was saying..
Thanks for all the info.
So it seems what we are projected to have in cap space is about $20 million. I don't see Miller getting cut. Walker looks like he is out and hopefully Griese.
The Moose situation is iffy. I would like to see Berrian and Bradley as our 1 and 2 punch and let Moose walk.
dbears54: porkchopsnapplesauce: dbears54:No you would not be subtracting the 900K for 2008( becuase he's not here),, it becomes part of the 2.7 million( bonus for 2008-2010) so the total is $97,758.499 Or 1 million different Not trying to give you a hard time, just trying to figure this out. You have the following listed for Griese in the 2008 roster *15. Griese,B $1,400,000 $900,000 $300,000 $2,600,000 That tells me you already accounted for Griese's 2008 signing bonus in the $96,758,499 number. If I do not subtract the $900,000 from the $96,758,499, how can I include the 2008 $900,000 in the 2.7 million ($900,000 for 2008, $900,000 for 2009, and $900,000 for 2010)? If I do not subtract it, it would seem that I am adding it twice. and i'm not trying to give you a hard time, if already counted 900K( 2008).. you are accelerting 1.8 mill( 2009.2010) not 2.7 milliion.. So you have a "constant" $900,000 cost for 2008( his unamortized bonus),, and by cutting you "save" his roster/salary of $1.7 million, BUt have an additional "cost" of 1.8 million( 2009.2010 sb)= the $100,000 some posters keep talking about.. but what's not understood the "cost" to bears cap is the 900,000( 2008 constant)+ the $100,000 difference =$1 million.. not just the 100,000 difference of unamortized bonus to salary, which is what he was saying..
I'm not trying to cause trouble either.
Read Question 1.7e in "AskTheCommish" (http://www.askthecommish.com/salarycap/faq.asp). He is quite clear on how this works.
If Griese is not released, he counts $2.6M against the cap (we all agree on this point).
If Griese is released, he counts $2.7M against the cap. See the example given in "AskTheCommish".
The Bears will put together a spreadsheet listing all their players and how much they count against the cap. The column next to Griese's name will have one of two numbers. Either $2.6M (if he is kept), or $2.7M (if he is released).
What everyone is saying is that the Bears available cap space , after accounting for Griese, will only differ by $100K, depending on whether or not Griese is cut. This is why we (the people arguing with you), continue to say it "costs" the Bears an extra $100K of cap space to cut Griese, not $1M.
The nfl salary cap in 2008 is $116M. After accounting for Griese, the Bears available cap space will be either 1) $116M - $2.6M = $113.4M (if kept), or 2) $116M - $2.7M = $113.3M (if cut).
Do you agree with this last sentence?
the_elric: dbears54: porkchopsnapplesauce: dbears54:No you would not be subtracting the 900K for 2008( becuase he's not here),, it becomes part of the 2.7 million( bonus for 2008-2010) so the total is $97,758.499 Or 1 million different Not trying to give you a hard time, just trying to figure this out. You have the following listed for Griese in the 2008 roster *15. Griese,B $1,400,000 $900,000 $300,000 $2,600,000 That tells me you already accounted for Griese's 2008 signing bonus in the $96,758,499 number. If I do not subtract the $900,000 from the $96,758,499, how can I include the 2008 $900,000 in the 2.7 million ($900,000 for 2008, $900,000 for 2009, and $900,000 for 2010)? If I do not subtract it, it would seem that I am adding it twice. and i'm not trying to give you a hard time, if already counted 900K( 2008).. you are accelerting 1.8 mill( 2009.2010) not 2.7 milliion.. So you have a "constant" $900,000 cost for 2008( his unamortized bonus),, and by cutting you "save" his roster/salary of $1.7 million, BUt have an additional "cost" of 1.8 million( 2009.2010 sb)= the $100,000 some posters keep talking about.. but what's not understood the "cost" to bears cap is the 900,000( 2008 constant)+ the $100,000 difference =$1 million.. not just the 100,000 difference of unamortized bonus to salary, which is what he was saying.. I'm not trying to cause trouble either. Read Question 1.7e in "AskTheCommish" (http://www.askthecommish.com/salarycap/faq.asp). He is quite clear on how this works. If Griese is not released, he counts $2.6M against the cap (we all agree on this point). If Griese is released, he counts $2.7M against the cap. See the example given in "AskTheCommish". The Bears will put together a spreadsheet listing all their players and how much they count against the cap. The column next to Griese's name will have one of two numbers. Either $2.6M (if he is kept), or $2.7M (if he is released). What everyone is saying is that the Bears available cap space , after accounting for Griese, will only differ by $100K, depending on whether or not Griese is cut. This is why we (the people arguing with you), continue to say it "costs" the Bears an extra $100K of cap space to cut Griese, not $1M. The nfl salary cap in 2008 is $116M. After accounting for Griese, the Bears available cap space will be either 1) $116M - $2.6M = $113.4M (if kept), or 2) $116M - $2.7M = $113.3M (if cut). Do you agree with this last sentence?
++What everyone is saying is that the Bears available cap space , after accounting for Griese, will only differ by $100K, depending on whether or not Griese is cut. ++
I agree with that
just saying the "cost" to bears in actual working budget( which was what I was doing) in 2008 if griese is cut is $900,000( unamort Sb) + $100,000( difference 1.8 mill(sb)-1.7 mill(sal/rost)
Guess its just semantics on what and where talking.. but going in circles now no matter which id