http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/Diner-morning-news-Building-the-lines.html

The theory or principles are very simple: Offensive and defensive lines matter the most. Teams that make the final four in the NFL, in essence the conference championship games, must have at least seven of the 10 offensive and defensive linemen (I count a fifth defensive lineman as a starter, most likely a nickel rusher) graded in the top 15 at their positions. The Steelers had no offensive lineman make that mark, yet they won the whole thing. Does this kill my theory? Does this make me head back to the drawing board? Alternatively, does this mean all my evaluations of the Steelers linemen are wrong?

In my mind, to build an NFL team to win a Super Bowl, or to build a successful business, the same steps are required. Study the organizations that are successful over the long term. Study what they do, how they work, how they maintain excellence. Remember, according to Peter Drucker, the business management guru, “being an entrepreneur is not coming up with a new idea, but rather taking an existing idea and making it better.” When you’re running an NFL team, you must have principles because you are much like a veterinarian. The patient doesn’t speak, so to determine what’s wrong, you must rely on principles and theories that have been tested over time.

contin in link

In general I agree although I do honestly think that some teams can defy this by creating such a strong team on one side of the ball or the other to offset the weakness of second group.  The Ravens and Steelers may be good examples of such a thing.  At the same time I'm not so sure the O line of the Steelers was that bad.  He called Rothlesberger the hardest qb to tackle in the NFL but I've always thought he stood back there too long and was too slow to make a decision.  Big Ben gets sacked a lot but look at the length of time he holds the ball before taking the sack before you judge the O line too harshly.

To be honest, in my opinion it actually takes a dominance of one side of the line and a decency of the other side of the line.  This seems to work better defensively than offensively but it can work both ways.  Look at the Rams of the late 90s..  The Dolphins of the early mid to late 80s is another example of dominance on the offensive line.  Of course there are many more examples of teams who win with dominant defenses than dominant offenses (Bears, Raiders, Redskins, Steelers, Ravens). 

If I ran an NFL team the defense would always be my focus.  The line is always where I would start building.  A strong defensive line puts pressure on the offensive team immediately.  In fact, a team with moderate safeties and corners can still reap havoc with a strong front four and three linebackers.  A team with great safeties and corners will get ripped apart if the defensive line is weak.  Pressure is the key to success in defensive play. 

On the other side five strong tackles, guards and a center won't do much if you have a fumble fingered QB or a running back that can't see through the hole.  Offense requires a much more even spread of talent to be successful.  Great offensive teams like the Cowboys of the late 80s and early 90s, the 49ers and the Patriots all have a spread of talent that covers the entire offense.   They also have a dominant QB that not only can play football, but can lead a team.  A good O-line can turn a mediocre offense into a great one but a mediocre offense can win superbowls if the defense is outstanding. 

---

I miss Buddy Ryan, he would put the boot on the throat when we took a 17 point lead. Babich seems to put on slippers.

wklink:

In general I agree although I do honestly think that some teams can defy this by creating such a strong team on one side of the ball or the other to offset the weakness of second group.  The Ravens and Steelers may be good examples of such a thing.  At the same time I'm not so sure the O line of the Steelers was that bad.  He called Rothlesberger the hardest qb to tackle in the NFL but I've always thought he stood back there too long and was too slow to make a decision.  Big Ben gets sacked a lot but look at the length of time he holds the ball before taking the sack before you judge the O line too harshly.

To be honest, in my opinion it actually takes a dominance of one side of the line and a decency of the other side of the line.  This seems to work better defensively than offensively but it can work both ways.  Look at the Rams of the late 90s..  The Dolphins of the early mid to late 80s is another example of dominance on the offensive line.  Of course there are many more examples of teams who win with dominant defenses than dominant offenses (Bears, Raiders, Redskins, Steelers, Ravens). 

If I ran an NFL team the defense would always be my focus.  The line is always where I would start building.  A strong defensive line puts pressure on the offensive team immediately.  In fact, a team with moderate safeties and corners can still reap havoc with a strong front four and three linebackers.  A team with great safeties and corners will get ripped apart if the defensive line is weak.  Pressure is the key to success in defensive play. 

On the other side five strong tackles, guards and a center won't do much if you have a fumble fingered QB or a running back that can't see through the hole.  Offense requires a much more even spread of talent to be successful.  Great offensive teams like the Cowboys of the late 80s and early 90s, the 49ers and the Patriots all have a spread of talent that covers the entire offense.   They also have a dominant QB that not only can play football, but can lead a team.  A good O-line can turn a mediocre offense into a great one but a mediocre offense can win superbowls if the defense is outstanding. 

the ravens always had a great "O' and "D' line( not jsut a great D).. ogden heading to the HOF and the otehrs were very good, same for pitts for mnay years, though with teh loss of faneca last year did tail off,, and teh cowboys ALSO HAD A HUGE DOMINENT O LINE.

The Jim Finks school...best GM Bears have had that I've seen.

---

Every sheeps dream is to marry a Packer fan

navy&orange:

The Jim Finks school...best GM Bears have had that I've seen.

100% agreed!..finks built teh purple peopel eaters, the 1980's bears, and then his biggest miracle, took the WORST TEAM EVER, teh 'aint's and even got ehm their first few playoff berths..

Some Gm's have done it with 1 team, no one else 3..

Having the #1 overall Defense and a QB who can scramble to bid time and make big plays can overshadow some line issues.

The Ravens haven't always had a great d-line, look a few years back when everyone said Ray Lewis was done because he struggled.. their D-line was awful, why has Ray Lewis regained fame and credit against he last 2 years. The D-line got good again... plus Ray made himself stronger to compensate for his slowing down.

Yes, but the concept by allot of people because of teams like the Pats is that you have to draft them to win isn't true, they didn't win but Chicago got there with 1 draftee and 4 Fa signings on the oline.

ROD WILL HELP THAT

Mavie:

Having the #1 overall Defense and a QB who can scramble to bid time and make big plays can overshadow some line issues.

The Ravens haven't always had a great d-line, look a few years back when everyone said Ray Lewis was done because he struggled.. their D-line was awful, why has Ray Lewis regained fame and credit against he last 2 years. The D-line got good again... plus Ray made himself stronger to compensate for his slowing down.

Yes, but the concept by allot of people because of teams like the Pats is that you have to draft them to win isn't true, they didn't win but Chicago got there with 1 draftee and 4 Fa signings on the oline.

yep and that reinforces the point, w/oa  great line teams suffer, and until lewis got ngalti people were saying washed up.. amazing how he looked better.. if our line gets back to form in 2009, rest fo "D" loos better( and url back in problwol like lewis..lol)

Agreed 100% ! How else can you explain Trent Dilfer , Jim Plunkett , Jeff Hostettler , James Williams , Phil Simms , and Mark Rypien winning one Super Bowl and Dan Marino never even appearing in one after his rookie year !

Chet8503:

Agreed 100% ! How else can you explain Trent Dilfer , Jim Plunkett , Jeff Hostettler , James Williams , Phil Simms , and Mark Rypien winning one Super Bowl and Dan Marino never even appearing in one after his rookie year !

it all starts and ends with the trenches

Yep ! That is one reason why I am worried about this up coming year because I don't see the great improvement that every one else sees on the offensive line . The offensive line is still a work in progress !!! I like the addition of Pace and Shaffer is OK for the short term , but there are too many question marks on the offensive line . The main one being can Williams even play !  I still feel the defensive line needs a good swift kick in the butt because they have grown complacent in recent years hearing about how great a defense they are . Hopefully , Marinelli can provide that good swift kick !

any news on how W.Sapp is doing with personally training T.Harris?

Oline is kinda important. But a good QB makes a average line look good. A Qb who is very smart can read a defense and gets rid of the ball fast makes a huge difference. Even skill positions make a big differnce. Look how much better our oline looked blocking for Forte instead of Benson.

Dline is a different story though. Most defenses go as the Dline goes. For the bears we need Harris, Harrison, and Gilbert playing at a high level. Our defense is going to go as our DT pass rush goes. We get that i could see us going 14-2. If those 3 dont play good i could see another 9-7 type season.

 

Balance wins championships, the idea that you can just build a monster offensive and defensive line and bulldoze your way to a Super Bowl is just unrealistic

elidj3:

any news on how W.Sapp is doing with personally training T.Harris?

never happened.. It was sapp yapping and being full of hot air, tommie went over to africa after the season

Mavie:

Having the #1 overall Defense and a QB who can scramble to bid time and make big plays can overshadow some line issues.

The Ravens haven't always had a great d-line, look a few years back when everyone said Ray Lewis was done because he struggled.. their D-line was awful, why has Ray Lewis regained fame and credit against he last 2 years. The D-line got good again... plus Ray made himself stronger to compensate for his slowing down.

Yes, but the concept by allot of people because of teams like the Pats is that you have to draft them to win isn't true, they didn't win but Chicago got there with 1 draftee and 4 Fa signings on the oline.

Haloti Natah sorry spelliing, but he resurrected Lewis along with RL's work ethic, heart ect..

Go Bears!

There is no doubt that having good offensive and defensive lines is critical to winning in the NFL.  The lines are the foundational support to each side of the ball.  On offense, no one can function well without good line play.  The QB needs time to throw, receivers need time to get open and backs need holes to run through.  On defense, the linemen occupy blockers to allow LB's to make plays.  They pressure the QB to disrupt plays and give DB's support.  If these things aren't happening, your team is going to fail.

This the reason I am concerned about our defense.  We have not been pressuring the QB with our D-Line and have consequently seen our defense in the bottom third of the league.  If this does not change wee will be in for a rough season.  I think we are in good shape on the offensive line.  I think Angelo did a good job of getting quality depth during this offseason.

motownbear71:

There is no doubt that having good offensive and defensive lines is critical to winning in the NFL.  The lines are the foundational support to each side of the ball.  On offense, no one can function well without good line play.  The QB needs time to throw, receivers need time to get open and backs need holes to run through.  On defense, the linemen occupy blockers to allow LB's to make plays.  They pressure the QB to disrupt plays and give DB's support.  If these things aren't happening, your team is going to fail.

This the reason I am concerned about our defense.  We have not been pressuring the QB with our D-Line and have consequently seen our defense in the bottom third of the league.  If this does not change wee will be in for a rough season.  I think we are in good shape on the offensive line.  I think Angelo did a good job of getting quality depth during this offseason.

alot of last year's "D" was because of the 3 and out's by the "O".. we had the "D" on teh field ALKOT more than most teams, and with culter that isn't happening and combined with no more mug, think teh 2008 anomoly, will be just that, an anomoly

CROWLS:

Mavie:

Having the #1 overall Defense and a QB who can scramble to bid time and make big plays can overshadow some line issues.

The Ravens haven't always had a great d-line, look a few years back when everyone said Ray Lewis was done because he struggled.. their D-line was awful, why has Ray Lewis regained fame and credit against he last 2 years. The D-line got good again... plus Ray made himself stronger to compensate for his slowing down.

Yes, but the concept by allot of people because of teams like the Pats is that you have to draft them to win isn't true, they didn't win but Chicago got there with 1 draftee and 4 Fa signings on the oline.

Haloti Natah sorry spelliing, but he resurrected Lewis along with RL's work ethic, heart ect..

Go Bears!

yep w/o nglati people were saying lewis was washed up, i'm wiling to be url has a huge 2009

dbears54:

CROWLS:

Mavie:

Having the #1 overall Defense and a QB who can scramble to bid time and make big plays can overshadow some line issues.

The Ravens haven't always had a great d-line, look a few years back when everyone said Ray Lewis was done because he struggled.. their D-line was awful, why has Ray Lewis regained fame and credit against he last 2 years. The D-line got good again... plus Ray made himself stronger to compensate for his slowing down.

Yes, but the concept by allot of people because of teams like the Pats is that you have to draft them to win isn't true, they didn't win but Chicago got there with 1 draftee and 4 Fa signings on the oline.

Haloti Natah sorry spelliing, but he resurrected Lewis along with RL's work ethic, heart ect..

Go Bears!

yep w/o nglati people were saying lewis was washed up, i'm wiling to be url has a huge 2009

Does Urlacher have anybody like Ngata in front of him? No not even close. Harris might be better. He might spend more time in the backfield wreaking havoc and getting sacks and causing problems which lead to turnovers.

But as for holding people up and letting LBs run free. Ngata is a beast. I watch the ravens play a lot cause i love there defense. Ray Lewis can run sideline to sideline free. I dont think our DTs will allow Urlacher to do that.

chitowndabears07:

dbears54:

CROWLS:

Mavie:

Having the #1 overall Defense and a QB who can scramble to bid time and make big plays can overshadow some line issues.

The Ravens haven't always had a great d-line, look a few years back when everyone said Ray Lewis was done because he struggled.. their D-line was awful, why has Ray Lewis regained fame and credit against he last 2 years. The D-line got good again... plus Ray made himself stronger to compensate for his slowing down.

Yes, but the concept by allot of people because of teams like the Pats is that you have to draft them to win isn't true, they didn't win but Chicago got there with 1 draftee and 4 Fa signings on the oline.

Haloti Natah sorry spelliing, but he resurrected Lewis along with RL's work ethic, heart ect..

Go Bears!

yep w/o nglati people were saying lewis was washed up, i'm wiling to be url has a huge 2009

Does Urlacher have anybody like Ngata in front of him? No not even close. Harris might be better. He might spend more time in the backfield wreaking havoc and getting sacks and causing problems which lead to turnovers.

But as for holding people up and letting LBs run free. Ngata is a beast. I watch the ravens play a lot cause i love there defense. Ray Lewis can run sideline to sideline free. I dont think our DTs will allow Urlacher to do that.

Harrison can be that DT for us this year, showed up at OTA's at 340 lbs and marenelli was quoted as saying his potential is almost limitless givin his athleticism, and let's not forget he was going to be a 1st round pick without his college knee injury, no mention of that issue the last two years = good sign

---

"Da Bears!" - Bill (Da Superfan) Swerski

chitowndabears07:

dbears54:

CROWLS:

Mavie:

Having the #1 overall Defense and a QB who can scramble to bid time and make big plays can overshadow some line issues.

The Ravens haven't always had a great d-line, look a few years back when everyone said Ray Lewis was done because he struggled.. their D-line was awful, why has Ray Lewis regained fame and credit against he last 2 years. The D-line got good again... plus Ray made himself stronger to compensate for his slowing down.

Yes, but the concept by allot of people because of teams like the Pats is that you have to draft them to win isn't true, they didn't win but Chicago got there with 1 draftee and 4 Fa signings on the oline.

Haloti Natah sorry spelliing, but he resurrected Lewis along with RL's work ethic, heart ect..

Go Bears!

yep w/o nglati people were saying lewis was washed up, i'm wiling to be url has a huge 2009

Does Urlacher have anybody like Ngata in front of him? No not even close. Harris might be better. He might spend more time in the backfield wreaking havoc and getting sacks and causing problems which lead to turnovers.

But as for holding people up and letting LBs run free. Ngata is a beast. I watch the ravens play a lot cause i love there defense. Ray Lewis can run sideline to sideline free. I dont think our DTs will allow Urlacher to do that.

in 2009 url isn't running the stupoid MUg and back tracking 20 ayrds at the snap AWAY fromt eh play.. instead in 2009 tomie and harrsion( or adams or dustry) are holding their gaps allowing url TO FLOW TO THE BALL, which si every bit as important as having a ngata in front of him instead.. @ different situations( lewis neeed beef in front, url needed a scheme change- but results willb e the same, a BIG YEAR for a MLB that wa sbeing criticised..

and if our DT's don't allows url to go sideline  to sideline, who do you explain teh probwls, the DPOY the 5 sacks, 5 INts 120+ tackels in 2007? 2008 was the anomoly wth the dumb mug.. he never had trouble bfore