I had an interesting debate with my friend about the origins of football. Some background. He is a Raiders fan and we got to talking about the Cardinals and the Bears. I told him about the origins of the league and stated that Arizona cardinals originated in Chicago and basically Halas just kicked them out.

He asked me where did they go then.  If I am right I think they went to St. Louis and then Arizona.. the Rams went from LA to St Louis...? That got us talking about the AFL and the Baltimore Ravens.  He claims they were once Cleveland and after the Colts left (in the shadow of the night) Cleveland turned into the Ravens.....? Is this true?

Ans then he said something about the Jets and how Joe Namath said thanks for the League, I am going to win it all... or some sheet like that...?

What I would really like to do or see is a map of where all the teams went. I am not that talented to do that. Could anybody put that together? All I know and like 95% of the people reading this is The Bears always stayed home in Sweet Home Chicago.

oh Yeah 

GO BEARS!  

---

Never Die Easy!

This won't help you out completely but it is pretty cool:

http://billsportsmaps.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/01/nfl_1920-1960_2.gif

Someone needs to make a full one with the whole country and AFL/NFL. 

---

AFL map:

http://billsportsmaps.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/01/afl_formation_map2.gif

---

Check out this webpage for more maps/info and see what you can dig up:

http://billsportsmaps.com/?cat=8

That's where I pulled the 2 maps I posted above from.  It has more information and other maps as well.

---

The Colts left Baltimore in '83 I think and Baltimore was without a team for 10+ years.  In the mid-late 90s the Browns' owner moved the team to Baltimore and changes their name to the Ravens.  Cleveland was then without a team for a few years until they were awarded an "expansion" team and got to keep the Browns name.

Yes, the Cardinals were once in Chicago until about 1960 and moved to St. Louis and later to Phoenix.  For one season they were known as the Phoenix Cardinals before changing that to Arizona Cardinals.

The Rams were in L.A. prior to moving to St. Louis to fill the void the Cardinals left.  Interestingly, the Rams were originally in Cleveland, I think in the 40s, before heading west to L.A.

The AFL has some history of changes too including the Chiefs starting out in Dallas as the Dallas Texans.

Not 100%, but I think Namath got a Huge deal (in those days) to go to the AFL instead of the more popular NFL.  I think he aslo liked the more wide-open style of play in the AFL.

 

---

"I'll be here all day baby. I like this kinda party!" - Mike Singletary

The original 8 AFL teams were the Bills, Chiefs, Oilers, Patriots, Broncos, Raiders, Chargers, and Jets. The Chiefs played in Texas before moving to KC, the Houston Oilers ended up moving to Tennessee and becoming the Tennessee Oilers and then becoming the Titans, and the Jets were known as the New York Titans, I believe they became the Jets when they moved to Shea Stadium which was right by Laguardia Airport.

This is why I love the Bears Board.

---

Never Die Easy!

Sometimes I forget that some really young people inhabit these boards.

---

Godfather, Left Tackle Mafia

34_BEAR:

I had an interesting debate with my friend about the origins of football. Some background. He is a Raiders fan and we got to talking about the Cardinals and the Bears. I told him about the origins of the league and stated that Arizona cardinals originated in Chicago and basically Halas just kicked them out.

He asked me where did they go then.  If I am right I think they went to St. Louis and then Arizona.. the Rams went from LA to St Louis...? That got us talking about the AFL and the Baltimore Ravens.  He claims they were once Cleveland and after the Colts left (in the shadow of the night) Cleveland turned into the Ravens.....? Is this true?

Ans then he said something about the Jets and how Joe Namath said thanks for the League, I am going to win it all... or some sheet like that...?

What I would really like to do or see is a map of where all the teams went. I am not that talented to do that. Could anybody put that together? All I know and like 95% of the people reading this is The Bears always stayed home in Sweet Home Chicago.

oh Yeah 

GO BEARS!  

i would'nt say Halas kicked the Cards out of the league, they are about to embark on another 2-10 season in '59 which would've been their 9th losing season in ten years, and they had become the red-headed step child in Chicago unable to compete with the Bears just wasn't a market back then for 2 NFL franchises in the same city, and in that final season they played 4 of their home games in Soldier Field and the other 2 in Minnesota in an attempt to find a new home, after that horrendous season the y relocated to St. Louis,were they would remain until'87

---

We knew ... in that huddle ... there was a group ... destined ... to apply the kind of pressure ... that had not been seen before." ...

agree with sayers, and for the young fans that may not know- old man bidwell and halas were VERY close friends, and worked together alot in the early years, heck when the bears had financial problems during the depression bidwell with money from his track operations helped out halas, so there while a rival, respect also. Bidwells just wanted to be out from under the bears and ahve their own city, which they did by moving to st. louis

On the the rest:

the baltimore colts, left in the middle of night to become the Indy colts( espn 30 in 30) did a GREAT segment on it 2 weeks ago( on their website) called "and the band played on' and really tells you the whole story.

the modell's moved from clev to baltimore after 1995, when clev would not give them a new stadium and became the baltimore ravens, from clev browns.

When did the last expansion in 1999- clev got a "new" franchise that they called the clevland browns again

what is intersting is all the clevland records are with the 'new browns'.. unlike other teams that moved( cards, rams) that keep their own history and records no matter where they go

scotty54:

The original 8 AFL teams were the Bills, Chiefs, Oilers, Patriots, Broncos, Raiders, Chargers, and Jets. The Chiefs played in Texas before moving to KC, the Houston Oilers ended up moving to Tennessee and becoming the Tennessee Oilers and then becoming the Titans, and the Jets were known as the New York Titans, I believe they became the Jets when they moved to Shea Stadium which was right by Laguardia Airport.

When Lamar Hunt started what was called" the foolish club" there was no Chiefs, they were the Dallas Texans, and also among the first 8 were LosAngeles Buffalo, Boston, SD, Houston, Denver, NY and the Steelers, Browns and Colts all joined the AFL immediately afterwards

---

We knew ... in that huddle ... there was a group ... destined ... to apply the kind of pressure ... that had not been seen before." ...

There was quite an outrage from Cleveland fans when Modell picked up and left because of the lack of a stadium deal. Cleveland had supported the team faithfully for years, and felt they got hosed.

What they failed to realize is that they were getting hosed again with this new Browns team, LOL

---

SAYERS5140:

scotty54:

The original 8 AFL teams were the Bills, Chiefs, Oilers, Patriots, Broncos, Raiders, Chargers, and Jets. The Chiefs played in Texas before moving to KC, the Houston Oilers ended up moving to Tennessee and becoming the Tennessee Oilers and then becoming the Titans, and the Jets were known as the New York Titans, I believe they became the Jets when they moved to Shea Stadium which was right by Laguardia Airport.

When Lamar Hunt started the what was called the foolish club there was no Chiefs, they were the Dallas Texans, and also among the first 8 were LosAngeles Buffalo, Boston, SD, Houston, Denver, NY and the Steelers, Browns and Colts all joined the AFL immediately afterwards

Steelers, Browns and Colts were all NFL until the merger, then they became part of the AFC.

---

kansascomet:

There was quite an outrage from Cleveland fans when Modell picked up and left because of the lack of a stadium deal. Cleveland had supported the team faithfully for years, and felt they got hosed.

What they failed to realize is that they were getting hosed again with this team, LOL

yep he received a lot of death threats, and a lot adverse media attention, hell if that were to happen here i'd want his head on a stick. it was all rightfully expected as well as deserved

---

We knew ... in that huddle ... there was a group ... destined ... to apply the kind of pressure ... that had not been seen before." ...

kansascomet:

SAYERS5140:

scotty54:

The original 8 AFL teams were the Bills, Chiefs, Oilers, Patriots, Broncos, Raiders, Chargers, and Jets. The Chiefs played in Texas before moving to KC, the Houston Oilers ended up moving to Tennessee and becoming the Tennessee Oilers and then becoming the Titans, and the Jets were known as the New York Titans, I believe they became the Jets when they moved to Shea Stadium which was right by Laguardia Airport.

When Lamar Hunt started the what was called the foolish club there was no Chiefs, they were the Dallas Texans, and also among the first 8 were LosAngeles Buffalo, Boston, SD, Houston, Denver, NY and the Steelers, Browns and Colts all joined the AFL immediately afterwards

Steelers, Browns and Colts were all NFL until the merger, then they became part of the AFC.

they didn't become a part of the NFL until '50 the Browns were founded in Cleveland in 1946, the Colts in Baltimore in 1947. both teams began in the All-America Football Conference and a few yrs later joined the NFL, when the AAFC folded.

---

We knew ... in that huddle ... there was a group ... destined ... to apply the kind of pressure ... that had not been seen before." ...

and the first NFL player to defect to the AFL was one of our own in 1961 Willard Dewveall of an end on the Bears played out his option and joined the Oilers.

---

We knew ... in that huddle ... there was a group ... destined ... to apply the kind of pressure ... that had not been seen before." ...

SAYERS5140:

scotty54:

The original 8 AFL teams were the Bills, Chiefs, Oilers, Patriots, Broncos, Raiders, Chargers, and Jets. The Chiefs played in Texas before moving to KC, the Houston Oilers ended up moving to Tennessee and becoming the Tennessee Oilers and then becoming the Titans, and the Jets were known as the New York Titans, I believe they became the Jets when they moved to Shea Stadium which was right by Laguardia Airport.

When Lamar Hunt started the what was called the foolish club there was no Chiefs, they were the Dallas Texans, and also among the first 8 were LosAngeles Buffalo, Boston, SD, Houston, Denver, NY and the Steelers, Browns and Colts all joined the AFL immediately afterwards

correction SD was not a part of the charter members of the AFL they were Dallas, Denver, Houston, Los Angeles, Minneapolis and New York. Buffalo and Boston were admitted later that year. Early in 1960, Minneapolis defected to the NFL and Oakland was picked as a replacement city. the Chargers actually originated in LA

---

We knew ... in that huddle ... there was a group ... destined ... to apply the kind of pressure ... that had not been seen before." ...

1963...........Would the AFL champion Chargers, the best offense in that league, had any chance at all against the NFL champion Bears who had the leagues best defense. 

Omeletpants:

Sometimes I forget that some really young people inhabit these boards.

Is it wrong for young people or people who aren't into football to BECOME interested in the NFL? At least we ask questions about it's history but then people like you are sarcastic towards it.

Chad_Thomas89:

Omeletpants:

Sometimes I forget that some really young people inhabit these boards.

Is it wrong for young people or people who aren't into football to BECOME interested in the NFL? At least we ask questions about it's history but then people like you are sarcastic towards it.

Not at all. Everyone has to start somewhere. It's just a reminder to me and other knowledgeable posters that most people here don't really know much about the NFL or football, in general. So, when debating them I have to realize that it's like talking to my dog.

---

Godfather, Left Tackle Mafia

Bears51/40:

1963...........Would the AFL champion Chargers, the best offense in that league, had any chance at all against the NFL champion Bears who had the leagues best defense. 

good question the #1 ranked offense against the # 1defense, the biggest difference between the 2 in my opinion would be the running games, our Pro BowL RB Marconi had only 446 yrds of rushing and Bull had even less while SD RBs Lowe and Lincoln both had Pro Bowl seasons and both made 1st team All Pro, Lowe with over 1000 yrds rushing and Lincoln not far behind with over 800 yrds on the ground, and of course Alworth made the Pro Bowl and 1st team All- Pro with over 1200 yrds of Rec, our leading reciever was Ditka with almost 800yrds of rec, while the Bears offense ranked 10th in the NFL, and SD ranked #1 on both sides of the ball i still think it would've been a great match up and a game i would have loved to bear witness to. but one can only speculate what the outcome would be.

 

 

---

We knew ... in that huddle ... there was a group ... destined ... to apply the kind of pressure ... that had not been seen before." ...

I posted this before but I figure since it was brought up, I'd post this tribute site to the AFL.



http://www.remembertheafl.com/

here ya go Mike again! LOL

http://www.remembertheafl.com/AFL.htm

---

We knew ... in that huddle ... there was a group ... destined ... to apply the kind of pressure ... that had not been seen before." ...

JStuckel21:

AFL map:

http://billsportsmaps.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/01/afl_formation_map2.gif

Thats awesome man. Still trying to work on the tree, Thanks!

---

Never Die Easy!

Omeletpants:

Chad_Thomas89:

Omeletpants:

Sometimes I forget that some really young people inhabit these boards.

Is it wrong for young people or people who aren't into football to BECOME interested in the NFL? At least we ask questions about it's history but then people like you are sarcastic towards it.

Not at all. Everyone has to start somewhere. It's just a reminder to me and other knowledgeable posters that most people here don't really know much about the NFL or football, in general. So, when debating them I have to realize that it's like talking to my dog.

Dont worry about omelet chad. He is the biggest iamanidiot on these boards and always has been. He has nothing to say. Bears fan IMA>

---

Never Die Easy!